Hailing from the Lake District, in the United Kingdom, Dave Carne is a Graphic Designer who came back to fly tying after a 25 year absence that began when he went to college. Since his return in early 2005, he has been dazzling us with some absolutely stunning Full Dressed Classic Salmon Flies. I've included pictures of some of the beautiful flies Dave has shared with us at www.flytyingforum.com since bursting onto the scene!
Alex- How long had you been tying before you went to college, and what types of flies were you tying during that time?
Dave- I started tying at about 13 - I come from Abingdon-on-Thames, just south of Oxford and so grew up course fishing in the weirs. I intially started tying because I'd read that Perch (Redfin) took flies, and so bought some at Woolworths (a Butcher, a Teal and Blue a and Greenwell - which I fished behind a bubble float). Needless to say I had a nose at them and fancied having a go myself - so did the usual and shoved a hook in a bench vice, and pinched some sewing thread off my mum.
Around this time the first fishing shop opened in town, run by a guy called Ian Hayden - a very well known course fisherman - but also a game angler and commercial tyer. Back in those days, shop owners were always after people to tye for them and so Ian taught me how to do basic stuff for the shop - 13 pence (20 cents) each, or 20 pence (40 cents) if I supplied the materials. It wasn't long before I was working there on a weekend, running the fly dressing department, and of course fly fishing (I cycled the 30 mile round trip to my local fishery as often as I got the £6 charge together).
Predictably I quickly became obssessed and joined my local Fly Dressers Guild, which met at the local ultra-flash Public School, Radley - regular visitors included John Veniard (who I got to know a bit) and David Collyer (easily as good as Paul Jorgenson). I soon progressed from trout flies to salmon and bought and read everything I could - but was always frustrated by NEVER getting to fish for them and the fact that so many materials were totally unavailable over here (though at the time I got 10 pair of florican through the shop - I'd never seen an actual speckled bustard feather until 2 years ago)... My limited resources as a shoolboy were the ultimate problem and when I went off to college my materials were mothballed and then, as I became a penniless art student, sold for an absolute pittance (£150) - finishing my tying career after 5 years (though I retained ALL my books from those days).
Tying for me restarted soon after I started fishing again almost 3 years ago, with a cheapo tying kit being bought for my 40th birthday - the return to fishing being a conscious therapy after having been devastated by the loss of a very much loved dog. The salmon tying started again after I stripped a few of the hoards of my old flies I still had - and quickly took over totally!
Alex- What is it that drew you torwards tying the Full Dressed Salmon Flies, as opposed to standard fishing flies?
Dave- I guess it's simply the pure artfullness, at least if they go well, of tying them.
As you may have seen I tie pretty strictly within the mixed/built wing genre and at 3/0 - for me there is little attraction even in full feather wings and speys or dees - they just don't challenge or excite me.
I also almost never 'create' patterns - I'm a designer by profession and I spend all day being creative so I don't find creative dressing either liberating or an outlet for pent-up artiness. What I really enjoy is the strict discipline of tying to a set, highly complex pattern. Though many of the flies I tie with married wings, I do have to say, should technically feature old style mixed wings and aiming to do it as well as I can... Whilst, most importantly, maintaining a progressively improved technique and finish. Though of course, we all have fits and starts in this department.
There is just so much more to full dressed salmon flies too, the history, the development of the patterns themselves, the materials knowledge you build up - not to mention the opportunity to empty your bank account in double quick time!
I enjoy preparing stuff myself as well - nowadays I dye almost all of my new materials, as I find I get the shades I want that I can't order. The colour mixing, being part of my job, comes easily.
Similarly, over the last few months I've been doing a lot of hook worrying too. It's amazing how it's not until you start reshaping and refinishing hooks to your own ideas that you realize how spindley and crappy most commercially available hooks are (CS10/3s especially). What's also surprising is how very easy it is to do - I'd urge everyone to have a go (sorry Ronn!).
Alex- Interesting, so do you believe there isn't much creativity involved in tying the classics?
Dave- Ahh - no, that's not what I'm saying!
There's lots of creativity - but not of the 'original thought' sort...
I'm still creating something beautiful and technically challenging and there's a lot of detailed creative thought in deciding how I'm going to approach and solve a problem, and indeed, how I'm going to interpret the features of the original pattern itself, as well as what 'feel' I'm looking for... The craftsmanship of it is what I get the buzz from... I choose not to be 'creative', I don't feel I'm 'not allowed' to invent paterns.
For me, so often 'creative' fly dressing really isn't truly 'creative', it is just a case of re-ordering a set group of structures and colours - simply resulting in an existing pattern in a different colourway with slight modifications - and unless there's real thought and understanding in the use of the new colours, there's no additional creativity in that at all as far as I'm concerned (that's NOT to say I don't respect the quality of the tying or like the final look).
For me, true out there artistic 'creativity' in 'salmon' fly dressing is Steve Fernandez - a very graphic style that creates a coherent, striking look and visual push. However since these flies aren't designed to catch fish (at least in theory), though they are lovely, and some of my favourite works to look at, they fail in the basic premise of being a 'fly'... They are 'works of art' in feathers - but as pieces of design they are not 'fit for purpose' (one of the core values of good design - though I do recognise the questionable line of thought here - given I'd never actually fish a full dressed fly).
Alex- You once said, "Sadly if people are too competitive to pass on their 'secrets' - they aren't competitve enough to risk allowing others to 'compete' with them for tying quality on an equal footing by letting them in on 'tricks' - I hate this, it won't do salmon fly dressing as a whole ANY GOOD AT ALL."
The rapid growth of the internet has given anyone with access to a computer a way to find tutorials or some of the elite tyers themselves, who have already learned the "ins and outs" of tying Full Dressed Flies, and happily share them with the world. Do you think the age of people keeping tecniques secret is a thing of the past?
Dave- I have to say that the free exchange of information is good for everyone in salmon tying - it's the specific reason the bar has been raised so high in recent years - it just amazes me the number of really good tyers that are popping up, each one with their own extra tips going into the pot.
I for one, have picked up a huge amount techniques through the web. Particularly through the massive help of such guys as Charlie Vestal, Aaron Ostoj, Blue Lucas, Davie Mc and of course him that they call The Painter)... This is clearly witnessed by the fact that (until I recently met Paul Little) I didn't know a single salmon dresser within 100 miles - yet I've picked up (almost) every trick in the book.
Alex- Who's The Painter?
Dave- The Painter is that finest of gentleman, Mr John McLain.
Alex- I just recently spoke with John McClain on the phone for the first time and I have to agree.
Speaking of every trick in the book, let's hear about your book collection. What books do you own that pertain to tying Full Dressed Salmon Flies? Which are your favorites? Do you have any aspirations to one day write your own book?
Dave- Books - what have I got? Er, I'll just list the ones with substantial amounts of stuff on Full Dressed Salmon Flies (needless to say not all 1sts!)...
Kelson, Hardy, Hale, Pryce Tannatt, Francis Francis, Malone, Maxwell, Taverner (How to Dress Salmon Flies), Tolfrey, Ephemera, Pennell, Stoddart (The Angler's Companion), plus of course Bates, Frödin, Dunham, Jorgenson and Radencich and some other bits and bats (what no Spey books?).
In terms of favourites - without doubt I'd say Radencich is by far and away the most important modern book on Salmon Dressing - absolutely essential reading.
Others... Well Malone (everyone yawns at this point!) as it's so cheap and simply packed with great patterns - and because I reckon Irish flies with their simple, attractive structure are really great for learning on. Frödin too is very good as it contains the pick of nice patterns from numerous classic books.
Kelson is great, but I prefer Hardy as there are some extra, particularly beautiful patterns in there that aren't featured in old George Mortimer's tome. For classic tying instructions you can't beat the conciseness of Hale, and for useful historical info Taverner is wonderful. Finally, of the early books, I rate Ephemera as the best all-round, whilst Francis Francis is another absolute must you can pick up cheap - and like Maxwell it appeals to my interest in obscure/unusual variants of full-dressed patterns...
On top of this lot I also fish the internet a lot and have patterns from loads of other books (which saves paying silly money to get the 6 patterns in Scrope or whatever) and of course I read all the old issues of The Salmon Flyer that are on the net with great interest.
Write a book? Looking at this answer, it would have to be a long one! (I actually co-wrote and designed a big selling book on ultra-rare collectible 60's Soul 45s a while back). Anyway, if I did do one, it would have to be something a bit different - and certainly would be a compendium of a number of tyer's work rather than instructional. I think that between Radencich and the web this is sewn up. There would be no 'creative' patterns of course - otherwise not unlike Mr Schmookler's stuff I guess.
Alex- Okay let's go back to learning tecniques from the web. You regularly help people new to tying Full Dressed Salmon Flies, as well as folks who have been at it a while, by critiquing their flies and pointing out areas where they might need a little practice. Often your feedback isn't the typical "that's nice" type of response that many often give. Why do you prefer to take the "tough love" approach?
Dave- Because I'm a miserable old so and so!
Seriously - as AO said to me when he first looked at my flies - 'that's pretty' doesn't teach you ANYTHING.
I try to suggest techniques I can see people may not know that will help them over a problem area and provide measured, encouraging comment that'll help people to improve themselves. Not to say I think I'm necessarilly better, or more skilled than them. There are a lot of tyers on FTF that are far, far better than me - bastards!
We can all learn from others - I wish people would be more brutal in their critiques of my flies, so often it's getting another reasoned perspective (even if you disagree with it) that helps you step back and see an unhealthy stylistic tendency developing, or how to go forward and solve a problem.
Alex- What differences do you see between tyers from North America and Europe?
Dave- I'd say that whilst the standard everywhere nowadays seems staggeringly high (except in the UK where there still seems to be very few serious classic tyers), there is a tendency to stray from the straight and narrow in the Colonies.
Perhaps it's to do with the fact that historically full dressed flies weren't used widely in North America and so there's little original reference flies about or tradition passed down from old timers to inform the look of modern tyings... But whatever it is, it tends to mean that on the one hand some great new techniques/solutions have been developed, whilst on the other that some stylistic tendencies I personally find sacriligious in tying classics have arisen (NOTE the distinction - in my eyes you can do ANYTHING if it's a 'creative' - but not if it's supposed to be a 'such and such').
I guess the sheer number of tyers in Scandinavia or North America is invaluable to developing a healthy 'gene pool' of tyers though - here in the Lake District without the internet I'd be tying pretty much in a vacuum with no bench marks to measure my work by and no ongoing source of new techniques, ideas or influences - and as a result would have been a much lesser tyer than I am so-far.
Alex- So do you have any advice for someone interested in learning to build classic salmon flies?
Don't try to tie a Jock Scott first - you'll just end up giving up altogether.
Don't start by tying creatives - even if you intend to move on to them ultimately - tie patterns that you (or others) can benchmark against existing examples.
Don't start with full feather wings either - you'll get early relative success, but won't learn much in terms of technique - whilst you WILL learn to tie full feathers by default if you tie mixed/built wings as well as a host of other disciplines.
Don't buy cheap materials - you'll only end up replacing them as you get more discerning, and besides they're MUCH harder to tie with, so as a learner you'll have no end of trouble... That said, pace yourself on spending - and use subs to practice technique with - you'll learn just as well with a wing made up of 10 cents worth of assorted turkey as one made up of $10 worth of Banksian, Bustard and Florican.
Don't expect to get it right straight away - even if you are a very accomplished trout tyer - it ISN'T easy and it WILL take along time and an AWFUL LOT of practicing before you start to feel happier with the results.
Do have a go at Irish patterns - they offer a great opportunity to tie complete, very attractive flies that don't feature some of the very awkward elements, but they do use materials that form the basis for a dressing collection for the more complex flies - usually without the rare and expensive extra feathers of the classics.
Do start smallish - true 3/0 is ideal - the materials are easier and cheaper to get and the small size teaches you thread efficiency and attention to detail - whilst big hooks allow you to get away with sloppiness that will only slow your development in the long run.
Do drive yourself hard - feel pleased with the good bits, but pay special attention to the bad bits... Analyze what went wrong and why, and then think how to do it better - or if you're completely stumped then ASK FTF, someone will be able to help with the problem.
Finally... Do take CONSTRUCTIVE criticism in the spirit it's being offered - there are guys on FTF who are genuinely in the world's top 10 (certainly NOT me!) - when they profer comment and suggestions they AREN'T picking holes, they DO know what they're talking about and they ARE trying to help you.
Thanks for some interesting and incisive questions - I hope I haven't bored you off your chair - or indeed turned myself into a pariah over night!
Alex- Thank you for taking the time to answer a few questions Dave, I had a lot of fun asking them and look forward to drooling over more of your work!
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Price: $6.95 for each issue
The Premiere issue is ready for shipping & the Fall 2008 issue will be available September 1st.
